@Dayglochainsaw PSL is the "I don't know/care what I'm doing so I just decided to go as far as fucking possible without worrying about whether that's a good idea"

@Dayglochainsaw Party for Socialism and Liberation AKA Tankies United

@Dayglochainsaw they think getting people to sit in a room and read a bunch of old books is the best way to start a revolution and also North Korea Very Good And Impeccable

@Dayglochainsaw basically take the rational thought of: Hmm maybe the US overexaggerates North Korea's terribleness

and then wrap that all the way around to North Korea Is Perfect And Best Korea

I think this undersells how bad PSL are, here's their dues structure Show more

re: I think this undersells how bad PSL are, here's their dues structure Show more

I think this undersells how bad PSL are, here's their dues structure Show more

@norikawa @Dayglochainsaw getting people to read a lot is pretty revolutionary...not the end all be all...but it does a lot of good...the rest of the stuff wouldn't exactly be the conclusion one who read a lot would really come to, me thinks...seems a like the reading list is a bit on the indoctrination angle

@Dayglochainsaw @norikawa good thing there are sources available like audiobooks (really glad there's plenty of those on youtube for free) :blobcatcoffee:

@Dayglochainsaw This actually has me a little ruffled, since it's the org I spend the most time with, so in the spirit of not being defensive: what makes you say that?

@Dayglochainsaw Yeah, it really comes down to your local. I'm in NYC, and it's kind of the only actual "end capitalism" group with any traction. There's a lot of specific issue groups (tenant coalitions etc) and there's Occupy, but the largest surviving Occupy shard that I've seen do a single thing is six members.

Oddly, even though we got AOC in, Electoral here isn't that strong. Eco, Feminist, Racial Justice, and Housing are all way stronger.

@Dayglochainsaw canvassing's a tactic inside a larger escalation strategy. It's low risk, but often necessary to building to larger tasks. I think of it like laying out tinder, though in some ways you never really stop (i.e. strikers often canvass).

There is definitely a problem of "we canvass so we can canvass more" among some activists, which I think comes out of a sort of fear.

@Dayglochainsaw And to back you up: mutual aid stuff is totally necessary. Simply put, a socialist org that isn't shoveling snow is kind of a joke, and its why brakelight clinics are so good (in NYC, we have a group that just swipes people into the subway instead).

It is good to know that Philly DSA is sub par. I know East Bay blows, and Metro-DC and Portland are kind of famously good.

@Dayglochainsaw One of the most important lessons you learn from spying on cops is that they consider well-defined, hierarchical orgs with vetting to be relatively easy to infiltrate and subvert, and amorphous blobs of do gooder anarchists to be incredibly frustrating to undermine. Our openness is our strength.

@_ampersand @Dayglochainsaw my local, (Seattle DSA) has people who want to do electoralism, and people who think electoralism is the worst possible thibn we could be doing. I think electoralism is important, but not the only thing we should be focusing on. But I don't think it's about "getting the right people into power," but about using a platoform such as high office to generate support for Socialism. Look at how fast DSA Membership grew after Bernie and AOC.

@_ampersand @Dayglochainsaw I know it's not very popular among the left, but we need spokespeople and legislators to make waves and bring people to the left, even if it's a fairly liberal version of socialism. People will get radicalized if we have visible elected officials who wave the socialism flag

@medic @Dayglochainsaw Yeah, the chance that AOC will successfully implement her GND (and the necessary MMT and FJG that go along with it) in the next two years is a ludicrous standard to expect, but she's already cracking the overton window in necessary ways. There are conversations I can have about socialism with normies that were just not possible even half a year ago.

There's also a lot of Americans who think politics=elections, so if you don't do electoral they think you're a joke

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